• Dancing is not just a movement. When a movement becomes ecstatic then it is dance. When the movement is so total that there is no ego, then it is a dance.
    - Osho

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Question 3

Does education lead to meditation? please explain education and religion.

 

 

Ordinarily that which is called education is almost against meditation. It should not be so but it is so. The original meaning of the word 'education' is not against meditation. The original meaning is: to draw out. To educate means to draw out; whatsoever is hidden in the individual has to be drawn out. The individual has to flower -- that is the original meaning of education.

 

That is what meditation is too: you have to flower in your own being. You don't know what you are going to be, you don't know what flowers will come to you, what will be their color and what will be their perfume -- you don't know. You move into the unknown. You simply trust life-energy. It has given birth to you, it is your foundation, it is your being. You trust it. You know that you are a child of this universe, and this universe, if it has given birth to you, will take care too.

 

When you trust yourself you trust the whole universe also. And this universe is beautiful. Just see... so many flowers are born in this universe; how can you mistrust it? Such tremendous beauty is all around; how can you mistrust it? Such grandeur, such grace, from a small dust particle to the stars; such symmetry, such harmony; how can you mistrust it?

 

Basho has said, "If flowers are born out of this universe, then I trust it." Right? That is enough logic, a great argument:"If this universe can give birth to so many beautiful flowers, if a rose is possible, I trust it. If a lotus is possible. I trust it."

 

Education is a trust in yourself and in existence, allowing whatsoever is hidden in you unfoldment; bringing whatsoever is in, out.

 

But that is not true of the so-called education that goes on in the world. Rather than bringing out, it forces things in. It simply pours in information. Again that word'information' is wrong; it should not be used -- it is'out-formation'.'Information' means: formation inside you. Something should grow in you -- then it is information. But nobody is bothered about you. The society is bothered about its own ideas, ideologies, prejudices, technology; they go on forcing you. Your head is used as a hollow place, so they have to provide the furniture. Ordinarily education, or whatsoever is available in the name of education, is nothing but stuffing your mind with knowledge -- because knowledge has some utility. Nobody is bothered about you, nobody is bothered about your destiny They need more doctors, they need more engineers, they need more generals, they need more technicians, plumbers, electricians. So they need them; they force you to become a plumber, or they force you to become a doctor, or they force you to become an engineer.

 

I am not saying there is something wrong with being an engineer or a doctor, but there is certainly something wrong if it is forced from the outside. If somebody flowers into a doctor, then you will see a great healing happening around him. Then he will be a born healer. He will really be a physician, his touch will be golden. He is born to be that.

 

But when it is forced from the outside and one takes it as a profession, because one has to live and one has to learn and earn one's living, one takes it over. Then one is crippled and crushed under the weight. One simply goes on dragging and dragging, and one day, dies. There has never been a moment of celebration in that life. Of course, he will leave much money for his children to become doctors in their own turn, to go to university, to the same university where he was destroyed. And his children will do the same to their children, and this is how things go on being transferred from one generation to another. No, I don't call this education. It is crime. It is really a miracle that in spite of this education sometimes a Buddha flowers in the world. It is a miracle. It is simply unbelievable how somebody can escape out of it: it is a methodology to kill you, it is arranged in such a way. And small children are caught in the mechanism of it, not knowing where they are going, not knowing what is being made of them. By the time they become aware, they are completely corrupted, destroyed. By the time they can think about what to do with their lives, they are almost incapable of moving in any other direction.

 

By the time you are twenty-five or thirty, half the life is gone. Now to change seems to be too risky. You have become a doctor, your practice is going well; suddenly one day you realize that this is not the thing you were meant to be. This is not for you -- but now what to do? So go on pretending that you are a doctor. And if the doctor is not happy in being a doctor, he is not going to help any patient. He may drug the patient, he may give medicine, but he is not going to really be a healing force. When a doctor is really a doctor, a born doctor... and everybody is a born something. You may miss it, you may not even know it. Somebody is a born poet; and you cannot make a poet. There is no way to manufacture poets. Somebody is a born painter; you cannot manufacture painters.

 

But things are very wrongly placed: the painter is working as a doctor, the doctor is working as a painter. The politician is there: maybe he could have been a good plumber but he has become a prime minister or a president. And the person who could have been a prime minister is a plumber.

 

This is why in the world there is so much chaos: everybody is wrongly placed, nobody is exactly where he should be. Right education will exactly be a path to meditation. Wrong education is a barrier to meditation because wrong education teaches you things which don't fit with you. And unless something fits with you and you fit with it, you can never be healthy and whole. You will suffer.

 

So ordinarily when an educated person becomes interested in meditation he has to unlearn whatsoever he has learned. He has to go back to his childhood again and start from there, from the ABC's That's why my insistence is for certain meditations in which you can again become a child.

 

When you dance you are more like a child than like a grown-up person. That's why you don't see dignitaries coming to me and to my meditations. Somebody is a commissioner, a collector -- he cannot come, because he cannot dance. He is a commissioner, or he is a governor -- how can he dance with ordinary people?

 

But if you cannot dance, you may be a governor, but you are dead I If you cannot sing like a child. you are a burden on the earth. It is better if you commit suicide. At least you will vacate some space for somebody else to grow and flower. You are not going to flower; that is certain.

 

Men who have some respectability become very stuck because they cannot do anything -- they cannot risk their respectability. They are afraid. They are not happy, they don't know what bliss is, they don't exactly know what being alive means -- but they are respectable. So they cling to their respectability, and then die. They never live; they die before they ever start living. They are many people who die before they have ever lived.

 

My meditations are to bring you back to your childhood -- when you were not respectable, when you could do crazy things, when you were innocent, uncorrupted by the society, when you had not learned any tricks of the world, when you were other-worldly, unworldly. I would like you to go back to that point; from there, start again. And this is your life. Respectability or money are booby prizes, they are not real prizes. Don't be deceived by them.

 

You cannot eat respectability, and you cannot eat money, and you cannot eat prestige. They are just games: meaningless, stupid, mediocre. if you are intelligent enough you will understand that you have to live your life and you are not to bother about other things. All other considerations are meaningless: it is your life. You have to live it authentically, lovingly, with great passion and with great compassion, with great energy. You have to become a tidal wave of bliss. Whatsoever is needed to do for it, do.

 

Unlearning will be needed. Unlearning means that you stop those wrong routes, you stop moving in those wrong ways that the society has forced persuaded you, seduced you to go in. You take charge of your own life; you become your own master.

 

That is the meaning of sannyas. That's why I call sannyasins SWAMI. 'SWAMI' means: one who has become a master of his own life. It has nothing to do with orthodox SWAMIS; they are not masters of their own lives. They are again on the same train, with the same society, with the same stupid power, prestige, politics.

 

A real sannyasin is one who does not care about others' opinions, who has decided to live his life as he wants to live it. I don't mean for you to be irresponsible. When you start living your life responsibly, you not only care about yourself, you care about others also -- but in a totally different way.

 

Now you will take every care that you don't interfere in anybody else's life -- this is what responsibility is. You don't allow anybody to interfere in your life, and naturally, you will not interfere in anybody's life. You don't want anybody to guide your life, you don't want your life to be a guided tow. A guided tour is not a tour at all. You want to explore on your own. You want to move in the forest without any map, so that you can also be a discoverer, so that you can also come to some fresh spots for the first time.

 

If you carry a map you always come to the spot where many have come before. It is never new, it is never original, it is never virgin. It is already contaminated, corrupted. Many have moved on it: a map even exists.

 

When I was a child, in the temple that my parents used to visit, I was surprised: there were maps of heaven and hell and MOKSHA. One day I told my father, "If maps exist about MOKSHA, then I am not interested in it."

 

He said, "Why?" I said, "If maps exist, then it is already rotten. Many people have reached there, even map-makers have reached there. Everything is measured, and they know every spot, named and labelled. This seems to be just an extension of the same old world. It is nothing new. I would like to move in a world which has no map. I would like to be an explorer." That day I stopped going into the temple.

 

My father asked me, "Why don't you come now?"

 

I said, "You remove those maps. I cannot tolerate those maps there. They are very offensive. Just think about it: even MOKSHA IS measured? Then is there nothing immeasurable!"

 

And all the Buddhas have said that truth is immeasurable; all the Buddhas have said that truth is not only unknown, it is unknowable. It is an uncharted sea: you take your small boat and you go into the uncharted sea. You take the adventure. It is risky, it is dangerous. But in risk and danger the soul flowers, becomes integrated.

 

To me, if education is right it will be just a part of meditation; meditation will be the last point in it. If education is right, then universities should not be against the universe. They should be just training-places, jumping-boards into the universe. If education is right, then it will not be concerned about money, and it will not be concerned about power and prestige. Then it will not be political at all.

 

If education is right it will be concerned about your bliss, your happiness, music, love, poetry, dance. It will teach you how to unfold. It will not go on simply throwing information into your head. It will help you to come out of your being, to flower, to grow, to spread, to expand. It will be a totally different education.

 

And naturally if education becomes involved with meditation it becomes religious. I don't call an education religious because it teaches the dogma of Christianity, or it teaches Hinduism. It is not religious. Education is religious if it makes you courageous enough to accept yourself, and live your life, and become an offering to God in your own way, in your own unique way.

 

-Osho, "The Discipline of Transcendence, Vol 4, Q3"

 

 

 


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    on Child Upbringing

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    The day the child is born, the mother is also born

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    on birth control methods and family planning

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    17. Five Dimensional Education

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    The five dimensions of education

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    Our educational system teaches ego

    The center around which our education is moving is wrong. The whole problem has arisen due to the wrong center – which is ambition. Our whole educational system is revolving around ambition. What is being taught to us? We are taught ambition. We are taught a race to get ahead of everyone. Even in a s...
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    Every child is brought up, conditioned, in a certain religion

    Question 1 Beloved Osho, Are you trying to destroy all of our previous ideas about religion? There is no other way to be religious. All that you have heard about religion, read about religion, has to be totally dropped. Unless you are clean, with no writing on your consciousness, you will never know ...
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    Children - Osho Quotes on Children

    Osho Quotes on Children We go on forcing children to go to sleep when we think it is time. But sleep is not to be manipulated by time, sleep is something inner. When the child feels sleepy he will go to sleep, but mother and father go on forcing the child to go to sleep, as if sleep can be ordered. C...
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    Give your children your love, but don’t give your Ideologies.

    TO BE A MOTHER IS SWEET…. Why? Just giving birth to a child is not to be a mother, remember. Otherwise there are millions of mothers on the earth — and there seems to be no sweetness. In fact, if you ask the psychologists they will say just the opposite. They will say the only problem to be solved is...
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    (ref) Mystic Rose For Children

    Mystic Rose For Children The following is a meditation suggested by Osho for children and their teachers to do together at the beginning of each school day. Stage 1 Ten minutes gibberish. With eyes closed, make any nonsense sounds you like; sing, cry, shout. Let your body do whatever it wants; jump, ...
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    If something is wrong with the child, it must have come from the parents

    Compassion is pure soul, it is pure sky: it has no matter around it. It is the ultimate blooming of the flower. Even the flower disappears in it, only fragrance remains. Shanti means silence, deva means god – god of silence. Help him to become as silent as possible. By being silent yourself, he will ...
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    It is my life - I have learned that there are better things than mathematics

    Listening to the birds, I remember.... Just outside my classroom in the high school there were beautiful mango trees. And mango trees are where cuckoos make their nests. This is the cuckoo that is calling, and there is nothing sweeter than the sound of a cuckoo. So I used to sit by the window, lookin...
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    Sex Education : Sex education is one of the fundamental causes of the rift between the generations.

    Sex Education The teacher of a class of ten-year-olds is too shy to conduct the sex-education class and so she asks her class to make this a homework project. Little Eddy asks his father, who mumbles something about a stork. His grandmother says he came from a cabbage patch. His great-grandmother blu...
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    Parents are not consciously exploiting their children

    We cling to the circumference, so much so that we have completely forgotten about the centre. Unless the circumference disappears completely we are not going to be reminded of the centre. And the centre contains all, the very kingdom of god. And the centre is capable of creating a thousand and one ci...
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    Parents : Osho on Parents

    Osho on Parents On one hand we go on teaching people to be true, and on the other hand, in a subtle way, we go on teaching them not to be true. Each child is made neurotic by the parents, by the society; and we know that we are doing it, and we know that others have done the same to us. Stop doing it...
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    There is nothing to judge

    Question 3 Beloved Osho, You often tell us that we should not judge ourselves or other people. I am a teacher and because of my job I have to judge the students. Now that I am going back to Italy, I am worried about how I shall manage with my job. Can you give me some help? Kalo Shreeman, my saying t...
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    8. The Light of Disbelief

    The Light of Disbelief Discourse date: Fri, 14 August 1969 00:00:00 GMT This discourse was given to students. Just as an individual becomes old, the society also becomes old. Just as an individual dies, the society dies and civilizations also die, but no individual can refuse to become old or refuse ...
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    Parents - Osho quotes on Parents

    Osho Quotes on Parents Each child is made neurotic by the parents, by the society; and we know that we are doing it, and we know that others have done the same to us. Stop doing it to yourself and stop doing it to others. Become alert. Just be real. I emphasize reality more than truth. Because truth ...
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    on Mother Child Relationship, When you are screaming at them, you have to love them also

    [The new sannyasin says she is concerned about screaming at her son. Osho asks her to give an example, and she replies: He comes up to his sister and he pinches her and she shrieks. It makes me nervous and so I scream at him to stop it.] No, don’t be worried about screaming – not at all. It is natura...
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    Every child is born clever. No child is ever born idiotic

    Every child is born clever. No child is ever born idiotic. To become an idiot one needs to be educated. To convert people to idiocy, schools and colleges and universities are needed. It is a great achievement. Idiocy is not natural; it has to be learned, it has to be earned. Great effort has to be ma...
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    Are children really so intelligent as you always say they are?

    Question 1: Osho, Are children really so intelligent as you always say they are? Gautami, Intelligence is not something that is acquired, it is inbuilt, it is inborn, it is intrinsic to life itself. Not only children are intelligent, animals are intelligent in their own way, trees are intelligent in ...
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    What is Education?

    Question 4: What is Education? Parmar, man is born as a seed. He is born as a potentiality. He is not born as an actuality. And this is very special, this is extraordinary, because in the whole of existence only man is born as a potentiality; every other animal is born actual. A dog is born as a dog,...
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    Does education lead to meditation? please explain education and religion.

    Question 3 Does education lead to meditation? please explain education and religion. Ordinarily that which is called education is almost against meditation. It should not be so but it is so. The original meaning of the word 'education' is not against meditation. The original meaning is: to draw out. ...
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    10. Truth and Science

    Truth and Science In a small village one moonless night everyone was fast asleep when the sound of weeping and crying suddenly broke the stillness. It awakened everyone, and the villagers, confused and shaken, ran towards the small hut from which the shouting came. From within they heard, “Fire! I am...
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    The first step is almost the most important step.

    Somebody dies... then those who were close to him, they should perform the death ceremony. The clergyman may not have even known the person; he will simply repeat a certain ritual. It is better that friends perform the ceremony. If there is a marriage, there is no need for any clergyman. Moreover, it...
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    18. Teaching - A Put Down or a Lift Up

    Teaching - A Put Down or a Lift Up Question 3 : You often tell us that we should not judge ourselves or other people. I am a teacher, and because of my job I have to judge the students. Now I am worried about how I shall manage with my job. Can you give me some help? My saying that you should not jud...
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    on Youth and Education system, Our education destroys our genius

    I am pleased at the prospect of speaking to the youth and the students. The first thing about the youth that comes to my mind is what today I would like to say to you in detail. For the old the past exists; that is already gone, and their whole world is behind them. Children imagine about and desire ...
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    3. Education: Love-Oriented

    Education: Love-Oriented Date unknown This discourse was given before students under the title: Youth and Rebellion. I am pleased at the prospect of speaking to the youth and the students. The first thing about the youth that comes to my mind is what today I would like to say to you in detail. For th...
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    What is learning?

    Question 2 Osho, What is learning? Vedant, LEARNING, in the first place, is not knowledge. Let us start from negating, from eliminating; let us first say what learning is not. Learning is not knowledge. Learning has become too much identified with knowledge. It is just the opposite of knowledge. The ...
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    To be a mother means a great revolution, and a radical change

    [A sannyasin says: I’m going to be a mother… Yes, I want it.] Do you understand what it means? If you want it, it is okay, mm? But one should be more conscious about it. To be a mother means a great revolution, and a radical change. To be a woman is one thing, and to be a mother is totally another. Y...
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    Can children understand the Truth?

    Question 8: Osho, Can children understand the Truth? RAJ, CHILDREN CAN UNDERSTAND THE TRUTH but cannot understand that they understand it. They understand more clearly than you can understand because they are more clean, more innocent; but they are so innocent that they cannot understand that they un...
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    Parenting : Osho on Parenting

    Osho on Parenting In a better world no parent will give you any belief. Certainly he will give you courage to inquire, courage to adventure. He will sharpen your intelligence so that when you come across a lie you can see it and when you come across a truth you can immediately recognize it, but he wi...
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    4. Religion: One of the Biggest Crimes Against Humanity

    Religion: One of the Biggest Crimes Against Humanity Question : Are you trying to destroy all of our previous ideas about religion? There is no other way to be religious. All that you have heard about religion, read about religion, has to be totally dropped. Unless you are clean, with no writing on y...
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    If the child is afraid of the parent, love is not possible.

    [A sannyasin, weeping, says: Something that came up during primal was that even though I see what my parents did to me I'm still doing the same thing to my kid. So many times my own needs get in the way of what she needs. I can't seem to give her any help. And I think I'm doing her harm.] Mm mm. One ...
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    When a mother becomes too much concerned about the child

    [A sannyasin has brought her son because she is worried about the way he doesn’t eat, which may be causing bronchitis, and how he relates with other children.] What is the way? I think the problem is more with you than with him! He seems to be perfectly okay! You seem to be too worried about him. Som...
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    To educate means to draw out

    Question 3 Does education lead to meditation? please explain education and religion. Ordinarily that which is called education is almost against meditation. It should not be so but it is so. The original meaning of the word ‘education’ is not against meditation. The original meaning is: to draw out. ...
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    The education in religion is education in courage, awareness and peace

    Then what should we do for education in religion? The seed of religion is there in everybody because life is there in everybody. We should create opportunities for the growth of that seed, and remove the obstacles on the path of that growth. If this can be done, the seed sprouts on its own, out of it...
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    Nobody can fulfill the idea of the parents

    [A sannyasin says she is afraid of meeting her parents.] I will take care -- just go and don t be afraid. It is always difficult to meet the parents, the most difficult thing, because between children and parents so many barriers exist; they have been created by the parents. The children are always a...
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    on Teachers and Children – Choose teachers who love small children

    [The sannyasin who started the ashram school says: I just don’t understand what it means to be a teacher to children here… ] Yes, that is right – it will be a totally different thing! It will be a totally different thing…. It can’t apply here. A few things to remember, and then you can work them out…...
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    7. Kick Your Own Butt!

    Smack Your Own Butt! Question : How can the birth of a child be made as gentle as possible? When the child comes out of the womb, it is the greatest shock of his life. Even death will not be this big a shock, because death will come without warning. Death will come most probably when he is unconsciou...
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    Leave children alone. Never impose any religion on them

    Question 5: My little son was never baptized. will this be of importance. It is very important! It is good that he was never baptized because baptism is such a significant thing — it cannot be forced upon anybody. When you force it on a child you are creating an artificial religion for him, and if th...
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    What would be the form of Education in the New Commune? (The Five-Dimensional Education)

    Question 1: Osho, What would be the form of Education in the New Commune? Maneesha, the education that has prevailed in the past is very insufficient, incomplete, superficial. It only creates people who can earn their livelihood but it does not give any insight into living itself. It is not only inco...
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    Each child has to be respected as unique

    [The sannyasin who started the ashram school says: I just don’t understand what it means to be a teacher to children here…] Yes, that is right — it will be a totally different thing! It will be a totally different thing…. It can’t apply here. A few things to remember, and then you can work them out…....
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    14. Robopaths are Never Creative

    Robopaths are Never Creative Question : I want to be creative. What should I do? Become a child again and you will be creative. All children are creative. Creativity needs freedom - freedom from the mind, freedom from knowledge, freedom from prejudices. A creative person is one who can try the new. A...
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    Guidance to seven months pregnant sannyasin

    [The new sannyasin is seven months pregnant.] Then just be here and absorb as much of my energy as possible. Be open and vulnerable. But go to meditations – even if you can’t do them. Just sit by the side. Be a part, just silently participate. Go to the music group and sit silently by the side. Let t...
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    4. Education and Religion

    Education and Religion Discourse date: Fri, 3 March 1967 00:00:00 GMT There was a fakir who was very alone. He saw God in his dream and found that he was even more alone. The fakir was puzzled and asked God, "Why are you also so alone? You have many devotees - where are they?" On hearing this, God sa...
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    22. Conscious Innocence: Paradise Regained

    Conscious Innocence: Paradise Regained Question : Why is childlikeness compared to meditation? When man is reborn, only then he understands what is the beauty and the grandeur of childhood. The child is ignorant; hence he is unable to understand the tremendous innocence that surrounds him. Once a chi...
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    Education in the New Commune

    [In September 1977 a sannyasin, who is setting up a new school for sannyasin children in the ashram, asks about education in the new commune] Question The sannyasin who started the ashram school says: I just don't understand what it means to be a teacher to children here... Yes, that is right -- it w...
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    Pregnancy is not equivalent to motherhood

    [A sannyasin says she’s pregnant. She’d decided to have an abortion and thought she was happy with the decision, but since then, whenever she thinks about it she feels a tremendous amount of sadness.] Mm mm. This will be a momentary sadness. If you want to become a mother then you want to get into de...
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    11. Teenage Revolution

    Teenage Revolution Question 5 : At this young age there is a lot of shyness and insecurity about making decisions. Parents are not often helpful. How to develop the inner strength? All shyness is basically concerned with sex. Once children are perfectly free to have sexual relationships, you will see...
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    5. The Nightmare "Gift" of Television

    The Nightmare "Gift"of Television A famous psychoanalyst, Franz Strunz from Munich, has been studying child behavior in dreams, and he has found that Sigmund Freud's original idea was not right. Sigmund Freud's original idea was that the child - every child, particularly in the civilized and cultured...
    CategoryThe New Child
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    7. Total Education

    Total Education Discourse date: Fri, 21 January 1968 00:00:00 GMT This discourse was given to teachers at Poddar College. Of the misfortunes that have befallen mankind, the greatest are the ones which we have been regarding as blessings. Because of regarding them as benedictions, as blessings, it has...
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    Osho talks about children in the new commune

    Children are immensely intelligent, they just need a chance! They need opportunities to grow, the right climate. Every child is born with the potential of enlightenment, with the potential of becoming awakened, but we destroy it. This has been the greatest calamity in the whole history of man. No oth...
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    19. The Generation Gap - Mutual Disrespect

    The Generation Gap - Mutual Disrespect Question : What is this generation gap? I hear so much about it these days. Two old men of eighty were sitting in their club when one said, "Do you think there is as much love, as much fun going on as there used to be?" "Yes, certainly," said the other, "but the...
    CategoryThe New Child
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    3. How Guilt is Built

    How Guilt is Built Question Why are parents so cruel to their children? Is there any sense in making them responsible? And how can one avoid making the same mistake? Parents are cruel to their children because parents have some investment in them. Parents have some ambitions they would like to fulfil...
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    12. Who's Kidding Whom?

    Who's Kidding Whom Question : Beloved Osho, Having heard you talk about competition and our childhood the other morning, it set me thinking of my own education. i realized that for twenty-one years solidly, every single event at school -- from playing in the garden, through official sports, to latin ...
    CategoryThe New Child
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    Children should come out of a tremendous love

    First move as deeply into love as possible. Till then avoid having children, because children should come out of a tremendous love, otherwise not. You can give birth to ordinary children, who are just by-products of a physiological and biological meeting of man and woman, but they are anonymous. When...
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    8. The Face of God

    The Face of Godliness Question : How can one ensure that our children maintain their original face? The original face of every child is the face of God. Of course my God is not a Christian, a Hindu, a Jew. My God is not even a person but only a presence. It is less like a flower and more like fragran...
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    20. Meditation: Nature's Gift

    Meditation: Nature's Gift Question : Surely, meditation is for mystics. Why do you propose it for ordinary people and their children? It is for mystics, surely, but everybody is a born mystic - because everybody carries a great mystery within him which has to be realized; everybody carries great pote...
    CategoryThe New Child
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    Pass through the misery of intellect so that you can attain to the bliss of wisdom

    Question : Beloved Osho, If intellect is such an obstacle in the journey towards self-realization, is not then training and sharpening of it just useless? is it not possible that because of their innocence and expressiveness, children should be helped to move into meditation directly, without imparti...
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    about having a baby

    [A sannyasin, who is leaving, refers to a letter she had written earlier: I asked if I could have a baby and you said I could. Then I began to think that Osho is putting a responsibility on me and was I ready for it.] If you can avoid it that is very good. When people ask, they create trouble for me....
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